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<channel>
	<title>Christian Debate RSA &#187; Futurist</title>
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	<link>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates</link>
	<description>Christian debating forum</description>
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		<title>The Only Defence</title>
		<link>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2011/10/18/defence/</link>
		<comments>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2011/10/18/defence/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 22:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>maninmirror</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Covenant Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Futurist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apocalypse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cloud Coming]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/?p=1033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Article attached to this post explains why futurism and dispensational views , give weight to those who doubt the validity of the christian faith.  We have to put on the armour of God to defend the faith that was once delivered to the saints. Just as the reformation changed the world ,by challenging  the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Article attached to this post explains why futurism and dispensational views , give weight to those who doubt the validity of the christian faith.  We have to put on the armour of God to defend the faith that was once delivered to the saints. Just as the reformation changed the world ,by challenging  the status quo and succeeded in giving every person access to the scriptures. Each person now can weigh up the doctrines of  those who profess to be our guides. <a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/The-only-defence.pdf">The only defence</a></p>
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		<title>Making Merchandise of YOU</title>
		<link>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2011/06/08/making-merchandise-of-you/</link>
		<comments>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2011/06/08/making-merchandise-of-you/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 20:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>maninmirror</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Futurist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apocalypse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity Today]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/?p=967</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter 1:1/3 ¶  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<div><em><strong><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-medium;">Peter 1:1/3 ¶  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.</span></strong></em></div>
<div><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: x-small;"> </span></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Today many self styled prophets and end times preachers with fancy charts and books for sale . that lead many astray. One of them on the world wide television network (TBN) recently claimed that Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah, and was promoting one of his recent books, that he claimed had the proof of his claim. Christians are very gullible for they often get lead astray by claims of this nature. They often trust every word they hear as if they were hypnotised.</p>
<p>Modern Day Christian cults provide a group identity for lonely people that goes with the emotional hype of the entertainment provided by the stage show preachers and the musicians that prepare the setting. Traditional protestant denominations often lose some of their flock to the modern day evangelist&#8217;s art of swaying their mindsets. Soon they are exposed to miraculous claims of a breakthrough into a life of ease and comfort with lots of cash by funding the evangelist or pastors visions of a modern day auditorium or some other project.</p>
<p>Sometimes even the leadership of a growing cult are unaware of what they have become involved in, as they are indoctrinated by the cults bible school teachers who provide unsound material to them. It becomes very difficult to sway their opinions once they have been indoctrinated. There are many today who have left a growing cult after some or other bad experience.</p>
<p>Attached is one example of this in an adobe pdf format. <a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/LYING-FOR-GOD.pdf">LYING FOR GOD</a></p>
<p>Here is another common problem you may encounter. <a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2005_davis_stephen_left_behind.pdf">2005_davis_stephen_left_behind</a></p>
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		<title>Armageddon Now</title>
		<link>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2010/01/24/armageddon-now/</link>
		<comments>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2010/01/24/armageddon-now/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 08:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>maninmirror</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Futurist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apocalypse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Video on Apocalypse]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/?p=847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[During my walk with Christ I got caught up in the frenzy of trying to understand the apocalyptic events that many popular charismatic evangelists were preaching. I bought their books on the end times and was thouroughly convinced an imminent rapture was about to occur. Now 30 years later I have abandoned them because all [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During my walk with Christ I got caught up in the frenzy of trying to understand the apocalyptic events that many popular charismatic evangelists were preaching. I bought their books on the end times and was thouroughly convinced an imminent rapture was about to occur.</p>
<p>Now 30 years later I have abandoned them because all of their half truths never came to pass. It is no different today as many modern television evangelists continue fleece the ignorant by painting imminent end time scenarios , by quoting the newspapers etc and using the scriptures as support for their conclusions.</p>
<blockquote><p>Mr 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:</p></blockquote>
<p>This verse above is often interpreted by them as the Anti Christ sitting in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.</p>
<p>Yet if we take note of who Christ was speaking to in this discourse, we will discover it was those who were seated around him at the time. It is patentently obvious that it is not the TV evangelsits congregation in the 21st century. It was a message to ensure the followers of Christ in the first century survived the destruction of Judea by the Romans in Ad66-70.</p>
<blockquote><p>Lu 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that <strong>the desolation </strong>thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.</p></blockquote>
<p>Lukes Gospel compliments Mathews Gospel and illucidates the event Christ was warning the infant church of .</p>
<p>Below is an excerpt from a Pdf File called Armegeddon Now. It is a critique on these who have made merchandise of Christs flock.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Opportunism.</strong><br />
The premillenarians’ credibility is at a low ebb because they succumbed to the temptation to exploit every conceivably possible prophetic fulfillment for the sake of their prime objective: evangelism. The doomsaying cry of “<strong>Armageddon Now</strong>!” was an effective evangelistic tool of terror to scare people into making decisions for Christ and to stimulate believers to “witness for Christ” to add stars to their heavenly crowns before it was everlastingly too late. Voices of moderation were less likely to find mass appeal.</p>
<p> Times of crisis tend to produce feelings of insecurity in the general populace as a matter of course. The evangelistic message was found to be most effective when couched in terms of confident, dogmatic overstatements, rather than in a carefully reasoned, moderate theology that offered indefinite conclusions.</p>
<p> <strong><em>The success of such evangelistic approaches was to the premillenarians well worth the risk of false identifications in the interpretation of prophecy.</em></strong></p>
<p> It would be unfair to accuse any one preacher or writer of such insincerity; they were True Believers (sometimes caught up in the snare of their overly zealous rhetoric),but, nevertheless, the result as a whole has been gross opportunism.</p>
<p>It is not likely that the situation will change greatly. Although within the movement there are many moderate voices that will continue to speak out against this irresponsibility, these voices will go unheeded since they do not offer any hope of greater success in the primary goal of evangelism.</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, these voices that in the name of truth and integrity cry aloud against opportunism will find their message muted by their own realization that their principal thrust must continue to be evangelism, not the reform of their brothers’ methods. <strong><em>The premillenarians see evangelism as the means to save the world and will continue to use this means as a justification to misuse the end.</em></strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Below is a link to the document the excerpt above was taken from.<br />
<a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/dwan-Armageddon-Now.pdf">dwan Armageddon Now</a></p>
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		<title>Charts of  Eschatology</title>
		<link>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2009/03/11/charts-of-covenant-eschatology/</link>
		<comments>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2009/03/11/charts-of-covenant-eschatology/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>maninmirror</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Covenant Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Futurist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Millenium Debate]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/?p=476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a chart that I composed a few years ago.  It needs some revising , yet it is a good overview of the various epochs in the scripture. In hindsight it needs some changes.  If you are new to the past fulfillment view of the scriptures most of the major events are in it.  [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/chart-of-covenant-eschatology.gif"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-477" title="chart-of-covenant-eschatology" src="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/chart-of-covenant-eschatology-300x216.gif" alt="chart-of-covenant-eschatology" width="300" height="216" /></a>This is a chart that I composed a few years ago.  It needs some revising , yet it is a good overview of the various epochs in the scripture.</p></blockquote>
<p>In hindsight it needs some changes.  If you are new to the past fulfillment view of the scriptures most of the major events are in it. </p>
<p>Perhaps those who are older and wiser can recommend  some changes. One of the things that is notable is the commencement of the siege of  Jerusalem in Ad 67  and  the modern state of Israel retaking it 1900 years later.  It could be expanded to include various occupants of  Palestine , I think there were seven of them.</p>
<p><a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/40-years.gif"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-478" title="40-years" src="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/40-years.gif" alt="40-years" width="570" height="295" /></a></p>
<p> Here below are some  dispensational futurist Chart for Comparison</p>
<div id="attachment_484" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lechart.gif"><img class="size-medium wp-image-484" title="lechart" src="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lechart-300x194.gif" alt="Another Dispensational View in Color" width="300" height="194" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Another Dispensational View in Color</p></div>
<p><a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/leschat4.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-479" title="leschat4" src="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/leschat4-300x198.jpg" alt="leschat4" width="300" height="198" /></a></p>
<p>Clarence Larkin drew a lot of Charts  to support the Futurist view, in the end he denied the New Covenant that we all celebrate when taking communion stating that it still awaits fulfillment .  I own a copy of his book  because in my formative years  it was recommended to me.  I have long since then abandoned it  as usefull because of all the spurious claims of  dates of  Christ returns over the last century (20th). The Gaps between the Ascension of Christ and the still unfulfiled view has become longer than the period between the Exodus and the birth of Jesus. His Charts are copyrighted and I may not publish them.</p>
<blockquote><p>Heb 8:6 ¶ <strong>But now hath he (Christ) obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.</strong>7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.<br />
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:<br />
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.<br />
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:<br />
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.<br />
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.<br />
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Dispensational Truth by Clarence Larkin Page 151 VIII:<br />
Heb 8:7-13<br />
This Covenant has not yet been made . It is to be made with Israel after they get back to their own land . It is promised in Jer 31:31-37 etc</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>He left out verse six which is patently obvious a reference to the Last Supper which Christ confirmed with his disciples (All were descended from Israel (the sons of Jacob) and in the promised land.</strong></p>
<p>Most dispensationalists revamp Larkin&#8217;s Charts unaware that he had never embraced the New Covenant which establishes our relationship with the Covenant Keeping God of the Divine Canon.</p>
<blockquote><p>Lu 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, <span style="color: #ff0000;">This cup is the new testament(Covenant) in my blood, which is shed for you.</span></p>
<p> </p></blockquote>
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		<title>The Destruction of the 2nd Temple</title>
		<link>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2009/02/02/the-destruction-of-the-2nd-temple/</link>
		<comments>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2009/02/02/the-destruction-of-the-2nd-temple/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 08:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>maninmirror</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Futurist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apocalypse]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/?p=322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark 13:1 ¶  And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2  And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Mark 13:1 ¶  And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!<br />
2  And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.<br />
3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,<br />
4  Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?</p></blockquote>
<p>See the fulfillment of Christs Words to his disciples, by openining the Pdf  document in this link: <a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/destruction-of-the-second-temple.pdf">destruction-of-the-second-temple</a></p>
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		<title>The Infallible Christ</title>
		<link>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2009/01/30/the-infallible-christ/</link>
		<comments>http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/2009/01/30/the-infallible-christ/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>maninmirror</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Covenant Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eschatology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Futurist]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apocalypse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Chronology]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[History]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Kingdom of Heaven]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/?p=314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This treatise is primarily upon the discourse and teaching of Christ as recorded by Mathew and annotated as the 24th Chapter. I have interspersed this with quotes from the law and the prophets and also other writers, including the Gospels and Epistles. In some places it may appear that continuity of the 24th Chapter of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This treatise is primarily upon the discourse and teaching of Christ as recorded by Mathew and annotated as the 24<sup>th</sup> Chapter. I have interspersed this with quotes from the law and the prophets and also other writers, including the Gospels and Epistles. In some places it may appear that continuity of the 24<sup>th</sup> Chapter of Mathew has been fragmented. But the careful reader will acknowledge that it is the very backbone of this treatise upon which all else is supported.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>(The full Article is in Adobe PDF  Format  use this link :     </em><a href="http://cceministry.have2need.com/wpdebates/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/the-infallible-christ.pdf">the-infallible-christ</a> )  , to view it.</p></blockquote>
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